In February, a wedding planner for a lesbian couple contracted with Petals and Promises florist shop in Riverview to make floral arrangements for the wedding. After learning that the floral services were requested for a same-sex wedding, Kim Evans, one of the owners of Petals and Promises, refused to provide floral services for the event. According to the CBC, Evans said in an email, “I am choosing to decline your business. As a born-again Christian, I must respect my conscience before God and have no part in this matter.” The lesbian couple did not wish to be identified.
In response to this incident, a group of gays and lesbians form New Brunswick and Nova Scotia are planning a protest at Petals and Promises florist shop, 39 Glenforest Drive, in Riverview, New Brunswick. The demonstration will take place on Saturday, March 19, from 3 to 6 PM. Protesters are encouraged to bring flowers to lay at the doorstep of the florist shop to make the point that the LGBT community is aware of the illegal actions of the florist in refusing services for a same-sex wedding, yet they are not condemning them for their religious beliefs.
Event planner Meredith Martell explained the reason for the protest in an email forwarded to FQ via Wayves editor Dan McKay:
“There seems to be a common theme running through the bulk of the comments posted on the article, hate. The slander towards the GLBT community is being fought by turning the slander on the religious community. As homophobic as some of the extremists can be, there are alot of religious people who are proud supporters of the gay community. This isn’t the way to fight this battle.
I think that this is fight that cannot be won by retaliating with the same hate and anger that has been shown to us. We need to be the bigger person(s) in this situation.
I am proposing that this Saturday at 3:00 pm, we rally the GLBT community and it’s supporters, we will each bring a flower to the Petals and Promises flower shop, and leave a flower on the doorstep. There will be no negativity, and no hostility. We will give this florist what she was incapable of giving our community, a bit of kindness.
I think this will leave a much greater impression than defaming the character of this woman and those who support her choice.
Let’s show this florist and this city how much love the GLBT community has, and that we will not be brought down by those who aim to steal our pride.”
More information about the protest can be found at the event Facebook page: Peace Protest-Love From Lost Souls
FQ 
Ann
March 17, 2011
I thought you should know you have the address wrong. Her address is 39 Glen Forest Dr, in Riverview , NB. NOT Glen Pine… I thought it would be a good idea for people to show up at the correct location.
QTC
March 17, 2011
There seems to be some factual confusion about the address. The event website lists it as Glen Pine Drive, and you’re saying its Glen Forest Drive. Checking Google Maps, it’s actually 39 Glenforest Drive. If you separate ‘Glen’ and ‘Forest’, Google Maps won’t find it. All I can say is consult your local street guide and good luck.
rae2
March 17, 2011
This is such an unfortunate situation. I feel nothing but sympathy for the Kim Evans’s of this world whose inability to deal with the real differences in the world causes such cognitive dissonance with their religious beliefs. I feel so sorry those who choose to wrap their minds in someone else’s untested assumptions and glib opinions and rigidly adopt them as a personal philosophy.
But… the “real world” includes these kind of people and about all we different folk can do about it is be patient and genuinely compassionate – just as we are with anyone who struggles with challenges they face – even when those limitations are self-imposed.
Best of luck in your laying of the flowers. Enjoy the day. Just don’t expect to change the view through Kim’s lenses. There are none who can dig in more tenaciously than born-again Christians.
Dan
March 22, 2011
Baloney to the guy who says the Bible is mis-translated. There are various references in it –ALL against homosexuality! Try reading John 3: 1-21 which tells how to become “born-again” & later why many will not GET born again. Then Romans ch. 1 lays bare the homo lifestyle–mainly it’s selfishness & rebellion against God as is “living together” without marriage. The Bible clearly says these 2 groups are not going to Heaven!-BECAUSE it is continually living in sin.
Mike.E.
March 17, 2011
The saddest thing is, this woman’s misinterpretation of the Bible is the root cause of the problem here.
Born again or otherwise, nothing in the Bible speaks about loving, committed same-sex relationships.
As a matter of fact, there is even one arguable instance where Christ Himself cared for a same-sex couple without judgment or condemnation.
The root problem is that the Bibles we use have all been translated, multiple times, from ancient Greek and Aramaic. And men have played free and loose with those translations. No single part of the Bible actually denounces or condemns homosexuality. Even the ubiquitous Leviticus, where the original Aramaic does not make reference to homosexuality (it DOES however, quite clearly forbid that you cut your hair, eat bacon and lobster, and wear clothing made from different cloths).
Aaron
March 17, 2011
1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Leviticus 18:22, and Romans 1:26-27… The Bible pretty clearly states that Homosexuality is against God… I am REALLY curious as to this account of Jesus caring for a same sex couple without judgement or condemnation. You can’t really deny that the Bible does denounce and condemn homosexuality.
Your comment about translation is a pretty common error. It is relatively easy to find an original translation of the Bible, be it in Ancient Hebrew or Ancient Greek; the local university here has a number of them available for scholars. Scholars were not “loose” or “free” with their translations; given that original texts are still available. What CAN cause problems is that quite often a greek or hebrew word can have multiple meanings, and one translation may take it differently than another (this can be solved by simply having multiple translations available…) an example is Murder being translated as kill, etc.
On to the main matter… I don’t know if I agree with what Kim did, as we are taught to show Christ’s love, and to have grace for the sinner.
Paul
March 18, 2011
Huh? Sinner? Just because someone wasn’t brainwashed into believing that the bible is not a work of fiction and doesn’t follow your religion? Who are you to judge?
anonymous
March 18, 2011
“No single part of the Bible actually denounces or condemns homosexuality.”
Wow! Are you ever wrong! I can cite hundreds of references where it does. It’s time for you to start reading your Bible.
lee
March 19, 2011
Mike E Romans 1:24 So God abandoned them to do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other’s bodies. 25 They traded the truth about God for a lie. So they worshiped and served the things God created instead of the Creator himself, who is worthy of eternal praise! Amen. 26 That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. 27 And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved.
I didn’t write it man….Im just copy and pasting. advise: know what the heck your talking about k……or at least back it up….
btw….I don’t think the florist was wise in the choice she made….but let it go man…everyone should just ‘mind their own business’
Menescus
March 19, 2011
I’m very happy that people chose not to “mind their own business” when Hitler ran Germany.
Kim
March 20, 2011
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God’s Law. I have learned a great deal from your rantings, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination … End of debate.
I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God’s Laws and how to follow them.
1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians?
2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of Menstrual uncleanliness – Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord – Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?
6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination, Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don’t agree. Can you settle this? Are there ‘degrees’ of abomination?
7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?
8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?
9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I’m confident you can help.
Thank you again for reminding us that God’s word is eternal and unchanging.
Kim
Dan
March 22, 2011
By the way–God’s word TRUMPS the law of the country which is made up by minds of mere men. God says” my ways are higher than your ways–my thoughts are higher than your thoughts!! LOL
Lisa Middleton
March 17, 2011
Amen Rae2
lee
March 19, 2011
are you comparing Hilter to the Florist Menescus?? Wow…
Menescus
March 20, 2011
Nope, I’m not comparing the florist to Hitler.
I am pointing out how far it can go when we accept discrimination. The “slights” to Jews and other “lesser” people weren’t huge at first… things like this grow when excused. Opening the door and permitting this kind of thing leads to a slippery and dangerous slope. Minding our own business is a risky stance to take.
If we each mind our own business when there is injustice towards another, then who will mind our business when there is an injustice towards us?
Dan
March 22, 2011
Just shows what you know about the Bible–HOW TO TWIST IT FOR YOUR THINKING!! Good job!Now read the whole book & find out what’s the problem with your “thinking”? By the way LOL. If you want to go to Heaven–better to read John 3: 1-21-it also tells why some people have chosen NOT to go to Heaven. Read Romans ch. 1 & find out WHY people willingly choose to be homosexuals. –not to mention that “the god of this world hath blinded their minds”. LOT–LOL
lorraine
March 17, 2011
Unfortunate is right. The only sympathy one should feel for Kim is that when she does what she thinks right is right, she is gets harassed. Where is the tolerance for her religious beliefs. She has the right to refuse service to anyone she likes, you ‘different folk’ should never expect or need approval from others for the choices you make.
Who cares find another florist why does this kind of garbage even make the smallest town newspaper?
Erik K
March 17, 2011
She does not have the right to “refuse service” on the basis of sexual orientation. Check the Charter under human rights.
Also, no one has to respect her religious beliefs only to tolerate her right to have them.
Matt
March 17, 2011
Lorraine, you are the problem with our society. Ignoramus. She has the right to her private religious beliefs, but the moment she steps on public soil (i.e. a BUSINESS), she’s accountable to the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. So no, Lorraine, she does NOT have the right to refuse service to “anyone she likes” – especially if it is on the basis of sexual orientation – for that is illegal.
As for “tolerating” her “religious beliefs” (or bigoted attitudes), I’ll tolerate it so long as it doesn’t affect me or anyone else. And obviously, this discrimination affected the couple.
Angela Surette
March 18, 2011
If nobody cared about this poor couple, it wouldn’t make the news…but we do care:) that is why it made the news, and not only did it make the smallest town newspaper, but it is also gone worldwide… fortunately, it is the law, and not discrimination and religion that dictate what is allowed and what is not anymore…
Us different folks as you call us do not need or expect your approval about anything, what is expected of you is that you follow the law if you choose to be in business, just like everybody else…it is not accepted that you break the law, and expect to be exempt from the law because you believe in some religion. This is Canada, and yes, there are laws here… and, it is not religion that rules the land.
lee
March 20, 2011
menescus…from what i understand, the florist didn’t refuse to service the couple but the event. Her conscience was bigger than her pocket book. They obviously found another florist without having to leave the Country, and we don’t hear them complaining about it. I appreciate your ‘injustice’ argument but it lays on both sides here. When we can’t follow our conscience and refuse to do something on a personal basis (from what i know it was a home business … not like she had employees that would do it for her) and then get harrassed, our name in the news, protest in front of our homes!!! WTF …. I’m sure she has family, kids…how do you think this is making them feel…..injustice towards the gay communitee? I think they are shooting themselves in the foot. Grow up….we’ve all had injustice happen to us from time to time….it’s not all about us. As long as it’s not ‘life altering’ … wake up smell the coffee and get on with life!!
Ken S
March 17, 2011
I can still see this getting vitriolic… heaps of dead flowers… bouquets of thorny rose stems (flowers removed) with decorative poison ivy… hemlock with tea brewing instructions attached. It might fly in the face of the “peaceful” part, but it would make for a hell of a demotivational poster graphic.
Bob
March 17, 2011
We living in troubles times when the pansys try to run the flower shop. There are plenty of others flower shops around.
Willie
March 17, 2011
I think everybody is entitled to their own choices in life. People have the right to be straight or gay just as other people have the right to keep their morals or let them slide. I see one side not accepting the other side for being gay, but I also see the gay side not accepting the morals of the first side. Grow up and accept each other for the way you all are. Why not just find another flower shop and let each other live in peace.
Angela Surette
March 18, 2011
The gay side as you call it…which I am on and I’m not gay…which a lot of us are not, but that is irrelevant…of course we accept her morals, what we do not accept is her breaking the law to enforce her morals about religion onto others.
Menescus
March 18, 2011
Why not find another gas station, or restaurant, or neighbourhood? What if it wasn’t about the couple being gay, but about them being black, or Irish, or differently-abled? Would you still be so willing to accept and defend her morals?
Erik K
March 17, 2011
Born again?
I was born right the first time.
I’m embarrassed for the community of Riverview, NB where I lived for nigh on 20 years.
rae2
March 17, 2011
There’s no winning this contest of views.
I have the strongest objection to those who assume only the religious have “morals” and everyone else has let them “slide.” Along the same lines I strongly object to those who hold their “Christian values” as the only right ones, while everyone else’s values are assumed to be something inferior to them. Rules and regulations (dogmas and creeds), for the most part, are just MADE UP by cliques of control freaks to be followed, sheep-like, by brainwashed mobs. Some of these “rules” (morals, some call them) are truly universal, common sense values shared by anyone not insane. Others of these codes of conduct are completely out-to-lunch and in place ONLY to generate guilt and control. Intelligent people know the difference.
Morals pertain to customs of conduct that are generally accepted as “right living” in a society. Obviously, since there are dozens/hundreds of widely differing societies, there are just as many interpretations of moral conduct. For example, it seems it is accepted as quite moral for some sects belonging to the Muslim faith to bury a woman in the ground up to her neck, who is only ACCUSED of some hairbrained infidelity, and then heave stones at her, crushing her skull until she’s dead. Guess you’re glad you didn’t buy into THAT faith, eh Kim? Supplied any flowers to a Muslim wedding lately, Kim?
I’ll stack my entirely secular moral set up against any uptight, anal-retentive, religious, dogmatic, parroted moral menu any day of the week and you can start with my Number One and fundamental rule: DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU. (If that comes from a religion then so be it. Christians stole most of their rules from preceding societies but lack the humility to give credit where due.)
How about it, Kim? How would you have liked it if an anti-religious owner of a flower shop you hired to supply a wedding decided it was against his/her “morals” to be associated with born-again Christian nuptials?
Right, I forgot. The fundamental Christian moral is to DO AS I SAY, NOT AS I DO. How far down the list is LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF?
Aaron
March 17, 2011
Dear Rae2… your bias is showing. You seem to be engaging in the same judgemental behavior that you are criticizing Kim for; referring to Christians as “sheep-like, brainwashed mobs”. Sounds a lot like the kind of bigotry that you accuse Kim; do unto others indeed…
Your point about the muslic sect is kind of ridiculous… I could point out tons of horrible things done by non-religious folks as well, what’s it prove?
Angela Surette
March 18, 2011
It proves that we can’t solve anything with religion…that is why we have laws now.
Moncton News Online
March 17, 2011
Moncton militant homosexuals set to harass Kim Evans of Petals and Promises Wedding Flowers at her own home… http://metromonctonnews.com/?p=1620
Menescus
March 17, 2011
This is a business, and as such she is required to abide by the laws of the land. The laws of NB and Canada state that she may not refuse service to someone based on sexual orientation.
Would she still be defended if she owned a gas station and refused to sell gas to someone based on the colour of their skin? What if she interpreted her religion in such a way that she believed it was wrong to sell flowers to people in wheelchairs?
I don’t hear anyone suggesting she be forced to welcome members of the queer community into her home, her heart, or her church. I only hear people saying that, if she is going to run a business in Canada, that she should abide by Canadian laws.
Matt
March 17, 2011
Thank you, you hit the nail on the head Menescus.
Bob
March 18, 2011
Peoples in wheelchairs shouldntly be going around carrying gas cans.
Menescus
March 17, 2011
According to the folks who are meeting at her home, the address is 39 Glen Pine Dr in Riverview.
Dave
March 18, 2011
Kim Evans of Petals and Promises
Riverview, N.B may Jesus flourish your entire business for speaking accordingly to God
Homosexuality is condemned in the Bible!
The Bible’s condemnation of homosexuality is as clear and plain as the Bible’s condemnation of murder, adultery, premarital sex, kidnapping, lying and idolatry. Further, for me to openly condemn homosexuality theologically makes me no more a “gay basher” than I am an “adultery basher”, “premarital sex basher”, “kidnapper basher” or a “murderer basher”. If you disagree, your argument is with God’s Bible.
The homosexual community has two ways of promoting their personal choices of being homosexual through the religious forum. First, some will claim the Bible actually promotes and condones homosexuality. Second, others try to get the Bible banned from public use by categorizing it as hate literature.
For any to use the Bible to condone rather than condemn homosexual activity in the theological arena just proves such a one has absolutely no idea what the Bible actually teaches. For anyone to suggest the Bible says homosexual activity is acceptable to God, is nothing short of wilful blindness. So to set the record straight once and for all, here is what the Bible teaches on the subject.
Anyone who has heard of the cities of “Sodom and Gomorrah” knows that they were notorious hotbeds of homosexuality. Gen 19:5-8 “and they called to Lot and said to him, ‘Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have relations with them.’ But Lot went out to them at the doorway, and shut the door behind him, and said, ‘Please, my brothers, do not act wickedly.'” The Greek word in the New Testament for homosexuality is literally “a sodomite”. Jock is trying to redefine what the term “sodomite” means. (A term that has unchanged in 5000 years, even today- “sodomy”) Apart from the fact the city was clearly destroyed by God because of homosexuality in the narrative of Gen 19, even the New Testament clearly states exactly the same thing in Jude 7 “Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example, in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.” Any sinner should always remember that the God who commands us to love our neighbour is the same God who will cast any and all unrepentant sinners into the “eternal fire”. Here are more Bible quotes, Lev 18:22-23 “You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.” Lev 20:13 “If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death.” 1 Cor 6:9 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals” 1 Tim 1:9-10 “realizing the fact that (civil) law is not made for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers” Rom 1:26-27 “For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.”
If the homosexual community chooses to practice homosexuality in privacy, that is there free choice. But let such persons know for certain that the Christian Bible condemns all such practices and God will judge them unfit for the kingdom of heaven if the continue to practice and openly promote homosexual sex.
1The saddest thing is, this woman’s misinterpretation of the Bible is the root cause of the problem here.
Born again or otherwise, nothing in the Bible speaks about loving, committed same-sex relationships.
As a matter of fact, there is even one arguable instance where Christ Himself cared for a same-sex couple without judgment or condemnation.
The root problem is that the Bibles we use have all been translated, multiple times, from ancient Greek and Aramaic. And men have played free and loose with those translations. No single part of the Bible actually denounces or condemns homosexuality. Even the ubiquitous Leviticus, where the original Aramaic does not make reference to homosexuality (it DOES however, quite clearly forbid that you cut your hair, eat bacon and lobster, and wear clothing made from different cloths).
Marriage
“Then the LORD God said, ‘It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him.'”
Genesis 2:18
“For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.”
Genesis 2:24
“If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.”
Joshua 24:15
“I will give heed to the blameless way. When will You come to me? I will walk within my house in the integrity of my heart.”
Psalms 101:2
“Trust in the LORD with all your heart and do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him, and He will make your paths straight.”
Proverbs 3:5-6
“Hatred stirs up strife, but love covers all transgressions.”
Proverbs 10:12
“Love does no wrong to a neighbour; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.”
Romans 13:10
“Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamour and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.”
Ephesians 4:31-32
“And be subject to one another in the fear of Christ.
Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Saviour of the body.
But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything.
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her,
so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word,
that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless.
So husbands ought also to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself;
for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church, because we are members of His body.
FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND SHALL BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH.
This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church.
Nevertheless, each individual among you also is to love his own wife even as himself, and the wife must see to it that she respects her husband.”
Ephesians 5:21-33
“Since you have in obedience to the truth purified your souls for a sincere love of the brethren, fervently love one another from the heart.”
1 Peter 1:22
“In the same way, you wives, be submissive to your own husbands so that even if any of them are disobedient to the word, they may be won without a word by the behaviour of their wives,
as they observe your chaste and respectful behaviour. Your adornment must not be merely external — braiding the hair, and wearing gold jewellery, or putting on dresses;
but let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the imperishable quality of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is precious in the sight of God.
For in this way in former times the holy women also, who hoped in God, used to adorn themselves, being submissive to their own husbands;
just as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, and you have become her children if you do what is right without being frightened by any fear.
You husbands in the same way live with your wives in an understanding way, as with someone weaker, since she is a woman; and show her honour as a fellow heir of the grace of life, so that your prayers will not be hindered.”
1 Peter 3:1-7
“To sum up, all of you be harmonious, sympathetic, brotherly, kind hearted, and humble in spirit;
not returning evil for evil or insult for insult, but giving a blessing instead; for you were called for the very purpose that you might inherit a blessing. For,
THE ONE WHO DESIRES LIFE, TO LOVE AND SEE GOOD DAYS, MUST KEEP HIS TONGUE FROM EVIL AND HIS LIPS FROM SPEAKING DECEIT.
HE MUST TURN AWAY FROM EVIL AND DO GOOD; HE MUST SEEK PEACE AND PURSUE IT.”
1 Peter 3:8-11
Menescus
March 18, 2011
It is irrelevant both what her religion is or what her holy book says. She lives in New Brunswick, Canada, and in this land it is illegal for a business to refuse service to somebody based on sexual orientation. ‘Nough said.
Bob
March 18, 2011
It bad enoug she have to be bilingual in New Brunswick, soon she have to be bisectual too.
Katzya
March 18, 2011
Dave, while your strength of faith is admirable, many of the scripture you have quote place women in the subservient role beneath men, have we not progressed to the point where women have equal rights with men? Having moved out of a time period were men were the only ones who were educated, had political say and were important members of society we have also moved past the time where the bible must dictate everything we do. The Old Testament, where the contested scripture in Leviticus is found, is also known as the Torah, which is the Jewish bible. In there it also bans eating Pork,Wearing clothes from different fabric and other such strictures, the New testament, which is the book of Christ has basis with the Old testament but does not enforce these rules.
The New testament is about acceptance, forgiveness and faith and forgiving the sins of others. It is for this that Jesus was crucified, died and was buried only to rise again. While good Christians should strive to be faithful and free of sin, they are not to judge those who they believe are to be sinning, for that is a sin in itself.
While you are firm in your belief that she has the moral right to turn away a same sex couple, does that mean that a homosexual person has the same right to turn away someone who believes firmly in the book of God because it discriminates against them? While it is unfortunate that this discrimination has been committed by a Christian, the decision on whether this woman was in the right or the wrong does not lie with you nor I. It lies within the court system, where the rule of law and an oath upon the bible will decide whether basic human right is to be set aside for someone’s belief.
rae2
March 18, 2011
Quick note to Aaron… you’re damn right my bias is showing. And yours isn’t?
And it’s not only your bias that sticks out like a sore thumb, it’s your blind acceptance, without a shred of acceptable, verifiable proof, that ANYTHING in your Bible is accurate. It clearly starts out with an outright fairy tale and goes downhill from there. BTW, you are aware that the major, “accepted,” VERSION of your Bible, – The King James version – was ordered translated, produced and supervised by King James himself – AN ADMITTED, VERIFIED HOMOSEXUAL. Bet that sticks in your craw.
You wrote: “It is relatively easy to find an original translation of the Bible, be it in Ancient Hebrew or Ancient Greek…” Please tell us what exactly is an “original translation?” Well, maybe I’ll tell you… there’s no such thing. An ORIGINAL is just that – UNIQUE… the first scratching in the author’s own hand – and I can guarantee neither you nor any university library has that. So you’re all working from doctored documents that wouldn’t be accepted by any legitimate court in the land as evidence of anything and any translation of that original is second hand at best and therefore suspect.
You also wrote: “Scholars were not “loose” or “free” with their translations; given that original texts are still available…” Bloody nonsense. In the first place you have no idea who translated what, let alone that they were scholars. And I’ve already covered the fact that original texts are NOT available. So quit presenting your completely untested ASSUMPTIONS as facts, OK? Children might accidentally also swallow that guff, mistaking it for fact, and be permanently damaged.
As Erik pointed out so succinctly: “no one has to respect her religious beliefs only to tolerate her right to have them.” Thank you Erik.
As a drug free, clear thinking, secular oriented citizen of Canada I TOLERATE both Kim’s and your “beliefs” (which really aren’t yours – someone else conjured up that hocus pocus you CHOOSE to believe – there’s nothing original in either what you believe or in anything you’ve written that I’ve seen). But in Canada there are laws specifically written to ensure that no citizen is to suffer discrimination because of your beliefs. If you Christians weren’t so damned arrogant you’d understand why everyone else needs those laws in the first place.
I TOLERATE your right to hold any beliefs you feel you need. But I sure don’t respect them.
Have a nice day.
Fish
March 18, 2011
Willie, of all the above comments yours is the only logical one. All the others have “anger” to them. All self absorbed in their own thinking. This is such a trivial matter to get all bent out of shape over. It’s funny how everybody is against Kim for her beliefs, yet her beliefs are equally as valid as the gay couple. Tit for Tat, leave it at that.
Menescus
March 18, 2011
Her beliefs are valid and she has every right to them. Under both New Brunswick and Canadian laws, her business does not have the right to refuse service to someone based on sexual orientation.
Willie
March 18, 2011
Well Fish, I try to call things like I see them. I know a lot of straight people as well as a lot of gay people. Being a homophobiac I’ve always been scared of gay people. A lot of people confuse homophobiacs with gay bashers which we aren’t, or hopefully at least most of us aren’t. It really blew me away to find out a few people I’ve known since childhood were really gay. After a couple days of initial shock I realized they were still the same people I knew all along just a bit different. That’s probably when it hit me that people are still people regardless of their differences. As long as gay stuff isn’t shoved in my face I’m ok with it. Live and let live. I also respect people for doing what they believe is right. The world is run by what I call MOM (Money Over Morals). It’s good seeing people do what they feal is right. I don’t think Kim was wrong for what she did because she has her beliefs. I think the whole thing could have been handled a bit differently but it happened and it’s done.
Menescus
March 18, 2011
Right or wrong, what Kim did is illegal.
Would you still agree with her right to refuse service if her morals told her not to serve First Nations people in her restaurant?
A person could say they don’t mind people of other races as long as those other races aren’t shoved in their face.
Willie
March 18, 2011
I think you’re sipping on silly pop now.
rae2
March 18, 2011
You know, I actually feel compassion and deep sympathy for poor, poor Dave.
I spent much of my professional life working for mentally handicapped and mentally ill people in the hope that my efforts might help to make their lives as comfortable, enjoyable and fulfilled as their conditions permitted. Never once in all those years did I encounter a mind and heart as damaged, hardened and closed as has been demonstrated in this column by Dave. I truly feel sorry for him.
If there is a heaven and it’s populated with people who can only cherry pick, misinterpret, twist, spin and parrot pre-digested pap as he does, I will be pleading with his God NOT to allow me in. I will say “Please send me anywhere else. To sentence me to spend eternity in the company of these people would amount to cruel and unusual punishment. Please send me to some other hell where I belong. Thank you, God.”
QTC
March 18, 2011
“If there is a heaven and it’s populated with people who can only cherry pick, misinterpret, twist, spin and parrot pre-digested pap as he does, I will be pleading with his God NOT to allow me in. I will say “Please send me anywhere else. To sentence me to spend eternity in the company of these people would amount to cruel and unusual punishment. Please send me to some other hell where I belong. Thank you, God.”
Brilliant. You just removed the very last vestiges of Catholic guilt from my subconscious mind.
Ike
March 18, 2011
People only complain about things like this when it they think it affects them in a negative way. As an example there are lots of women only fitness clubs around which break the law. But no one is protesting them. Live and let live.
Willie
March 21, 2011
Thats because the guy starts working out with a dumbell and finishes with a barbell. Oops, I did not say that.
Leslie Idler
March 18, 2011
While I support the gay and lesbian community in their desire to be treated with dignity, as they should be, that must not cancel out religious freedom to politely decline to participate, as Kim Evans did. Many gays and lesbians would have simply chosen another florist.
She would have been out of line to refuse to sell these girls ANY flowers.
Leslie Idler
March 18, 2011
Religious freedom should exempt people from providing services for events that are contrary to their beliefs.
Religious freedom does NOT give us the right to refuse ALL business to certain groups of people. Nor does it give the right to discredit someone or their business just because they’re gay, Living together, or not a Christian, etc.
On the positive side, now Petals and Promises is getting free publicity, and we all know the owner is a highly principled woman. 🙂
anonymous
March 18, 2011
Why do the gays always feel the need to proclaim themselves? If they are truly equal, they wouldn’t have to. Let’s all have a STRAIGHT parade!!
Just a Thought.
March 19, 2011
Every other parade IS a straight parade. Almost every Santa Claus Parade, Thanksgiving Parade, and even Parade of roses I have seen has been rife with overwhelmingly positive portrayals of heterosexuality and straight culture. If you put gays in your parades, maybe they wouldn’t need to have their own.
Menescus
March 19, 2011
Well said!!!
Bob
March 19, 2011
That not true. Most of Santas elfs are gay.
Pomodoro
March 18, 2011
@ Erik K – To lump all of the residents in Riverview into the same pot as Kim Evans is offensive. I live in the same neighbourhood as she (which the address is 39 GLENFOREST DRIVE – NOT GLEN PINE/PINE GLEN or even GLEN FOREST) and couldn’t be more appalled by her behaviour.
Saddened by all of this!
March 18, 2011
I am a progressive Christian. I believe that same sex individuals should have the same rights as I do. I believe that love is love no matter what. Why do people continue to treat individuals in this way? It saddens me. I have a baby boy and if he choses to love another man latter on in life, I will support him all the way.
I respect that this business owner has her views and you can’t change a persons views. I will say that I don’t believe it is acceptable to refuse to do business with someone because of their sexuality. This is comparable to what happened to African Americans down in the states and I am sure still happens to a certain extent.
The Bible can be interpreted in so many ways by the way….I hope that we can take the great teachings from the bible and spread the word and leave the homophobic stuff at the back door. It is pure hatred and hatred is as close to Satan as you can get.
The people who lived 2000 years ago were very homophobic. Just saying….
rae2
March 19, 2011
Well, “Saddened by all of this!”, I applaud your attitude as a “progressive Christian.” It’s refreshing to hear that some followers of your faith possess the ability to critically analyze what they are fed, whatever the source. I suspect you and your attitudes, even as a professed Christian, would NOT be welcomed into many congregations.
There is no clearer demonstration of the profound hypocrisy, rooted in ignorance and fear, that infects the fundamentalists of ANY religion or philosophy. In my view, fundamentalism is a mental disorder and should be treated as any contagious illness. I think that immature adults and children should be protected FROM the “teachings” of any organized religion until it is clear they have achieved the ability to critically decide for themselves whether or not to follow any one of them. Removing CHOICE is abuse.
Kim
March 20, 2011
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God’s Law. I have learned a great deal from your rantings, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination … End of debate.
I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God’s Laws and how to follow them.
1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians?
2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of Menstrual uncleanliness – Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord – Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?
6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination, Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don’t agree. Can you settle this? Are there ‘degrees’ of abomination?
7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?
8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?
9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I’m confident you can help.
Thank you again for reminding us that God’s word is eternal and unchanging.
rae2
March 21, 2011
Kim, thanks for posting, twice, this article you lifted from somewhere without giving the author and publisher credit. I believe it was originally titled “A Letter to Dr. Laura” – I’ve seen it a dozen times in the last decade or so.
It only highlights how silly, illogical and UNFAIR it is for people to cherry-pick bits and pieces from ancient writings and use them to bash anyone and anything they don’t like in today’s modern world.
Luckly intelligent people just read this stuff and laugh… in the same way as I assume folks living in 3011 will look at the nonsenses we currently go to war over.
Albert Camus was absolutely correct when he penned…. “MAN IS ABSURD.”
Bob
March 18, 2011
Hey maybe Riverveiw could have his first gay parade tomorrow
Vivian Godinne
March 18, 2011
I find it appalling that == CBC ==and== these 2 lesbians== would get involved in defaming Kim’s name and the name of her business, in every news cast that morning. I am also shocked, that Dave Mc would accept to be involved in that, KNOWING that this devious story would ruin Kim. Then not letting everyone know the name of these 2 lesbians who were complaining, and starting this trouble……I find this was not acceptable. They were too embarrased to give their names,,,they can harrasse someone, but not want to get harrassed also??? How does that work….. ? Kim did not make it a big issue to tell everyone when and where they were getting married, did she?? Well now she should, so that everyone can go gawk at these 2 trouble makers, and everyone can bring 2 black flowers to signify their mean caracter.
Kim needs to go on CBC tell her side of the story, and identify these 2 cowards, give their adress, and their childrens names, and schools, if there are any, whats good for the gouse is good for the ganderesses…..Then the lesbians can get to see what
vicious really “feels ” like.
Why weren’t they honest with the Florist, the first time they contacted her. Kim could have decided then if the timming was good or not, and they could have went on to the next florist.
They know not everyone accepts that life style, why stir the pot more. I don’t know Kim,
but if she has high morals and didn’t feel right doing this wedding……where’s her
constitutional right ???? she has just as much right as them to her beleifs.
I heard Eldon Hay say that she was in her right, because she is in her own home. He should know. Why are all of you people being so mean and nasty……Does ruining her name and business make the lesbians and gays people feel high and mighty now?? I beleive in Karma …what comes around, goes around, in life, and someday -something -will hit the fan for them too. You are all such unkind and mean spirited
people…….I guess what ever makes you happy, you do………….!!!!!!!!!!! What a bunch of
nutty people. You need to start getting a life, to spread kindness, and joy, and help people who are less fortunate than you….in any little way you can. then you will feel good about yourself, instead of waisting time and money on these stupid protests that make you
feel good, but look worst.
QTC
March 20, 2011
The 2 lesbians who were to be wed were NOT the ones who organized the protest. They had nothing to do with it. It was organized by other people. Secondly, they did NOT file a human rights law suit, which they are certainly entitled to do under the law. Thirdly, they could have also filed a civil law suit under BREACH OF CONTRACT for breaking the service contract, regardless of the reason. Third, they did NOT publicly denounce Kim Evans. They did what everybody says they said they should do: they quietly withdrew their bid for services and went to another florist. The defamation here is against the lesbian couple who sought Kim’s services. People here are falsely accusing them of doing things they didn’t do. That, by the way is SLANDER and also actionable under civil law. The 2 lesbians conducted themselves with great discretion. They did not want to bring attention to the issue because they didn’t want one of the happiest days of their life to be spoiled by a public controversy. I’m sure you would want the same on your wedding day.
Saddened by all of this!
March 18, 2011
To add to my previous post…I meant to say if my son falls in love with another man latter on in life I will be supportive. I said choses which is the wrong choice of words…. 🙂 I wish a positive outcome and that Kim and the gay community can have a conversation with each other at some point.
A Strange Boy
March 18, 2011
I lived in Riverview for a few years mainly because it was close to work. It was quiet and pleasant but it also really smacked of being an enclave for people who liked having the access to the big city while insulating themselves even further from the more “exotic” aspects of city life than living in the suburbs even allowed. The bus service between Moncton proper and Riverview was laughable at best, and the “downtown” of Riverview was little more than grocery stores and fast food restaurants.
I can’t say I’m too surprised this happened there, but it’s not so much Riverview as the prevalence of narrow-minded people in New Brunswick. For all the tolerant and open-hearted people coming out to protest what Evans did, there has been a disconcerting amount of people speaking up who still think it’s their unalienable right to treat someone as a second-class citizen because of who they love.
Whatever you believe, Evans broke the law. Plain and simple.
Straight mom
March 18, 2011
To those who believe Kim has been wronged – I believe she did have her say – otherwise how would the holy ones know to go to her home and the news have her part of the story.
I also believe that quoting one piece of the bible whilst leaving out the rest is a travesty. If you are going to condemn one group based on the holy text why not use it all? I do remember part of Leviticus (20:9 I believe) stating it was punishable by death to curse your father and your mother – hmmm…so, in her good conscious, and the good conscious of other good Christians – should the state now enforce the death penalty on this? It’s also an abomination to eat meat with blood still in it – should I be punished for eating rare steak? Surely I now I have sinned as I have a tattoo and Leviticus clearly states that marring the skin in such a way is an abomination – wait – do YOU have a tattoo or eat rare steaks? It is also an abomination to have intercourse (heterosexual sex) before and during a women’s menstruation, according to Leviticus, and adultery is punishable by death (I am quite sure she would not ask a paying customer if they were adulterous)…I could continue, but I think the point has been made – and will no doubt be passed over as ignorance because apparently I could not possibly know the Bible since I am arguing for the couple – By the way I was raised Roman Catholic.
Now if you step past the argument of her religious right, you will remember, as Menescus has clearly stated SEVERAL times, in a clear, un-angered manner, that Kim has broken the law. She owns a business and as such cannot discriminate as it is punishable under the law. As Menescus once again stated, if she refused to serve black person, native person, or person differently abled she would have been called out with a furror even from the her fellow Christians, but because the discrimination is against two persons of a different sexual orientation it is somehow ok for them? No, it is not – it is still discrimination under the law. Church and state have been separated for a reason – not everyone in this beautiful nation is Christian, or Muslim, or Jewish, or Hindu, etc…that is why we have secular laws that prohibit discriminations of this type. No, you can’t stop someone from feeling how they feel, but you can stop them from discriminating in a public arena – her business is open to the public, hence it is a public arena, hence she broke the law. If she did not wish to serve those she perceives in that light, then she should not be open to the general public.
Freedoms
March 19, 2011
I do feel sorry for all involved and this has escalated way beyond what it should have.
Kim has her beliefs and the Public has their protection (against discrimination). I’m certain Kim would have done things differently if she knew things were going to escalate as they have.
Instead of being honest to the couple, she should have priced her product astronomically high and let the couple make the decision if they would accept the price. Kim as a business owner is allowed to set her own pricing; however if the couple accepted the price, then Kim loses as she would be labelled a prostitute. She loses in every way especially if the couple purposely planned to create trouble. In all honesty, the couple should have allowed their names to be associated with the situation if they are so offended.
I doubt there will ‘throngs’ of protestors but I do hope these people respect the neighbourhood since it is supposedly a ‘home-based’ business. I also hope the RCMP will station an officer nearby to keep any protester (or trouble maker) in-line.
Saddened by all of this!
March 19, 2011
Well said Straight Mom! I wish more people thought this way! Maybe the world would be a more peaceful place. 🙂 One of my dear friends that is gay and has a wonderful partner deserves the respect that I myself receive being straight and married. People need to wake up and realize that hatred is not the answer.
bob
March 19, 2011
I don’t understand why these two people who are “ruined for life,” so to speak, don’t have the courage of their convictions and allow their names to be used. But its good..it gives the homossexual element a “cause”……. isn’t that what this is all about??????
rae2
March 19, 2011
Bob…
Clearly there is a LOT you don’t understand.
But cheer up! There’s a lot I don’t understand either… like I don’t understand what you mean by “it gives the homossexual (sic) element a “cause”…”.
I’ve been a homosexual pretty much all of my 70+ years and the only “cause” I’m aware of having is to invest a lot of time and energy into trying to understand why some people seem incapable of accepting that there are MANY paths through this adventure on earth that not only are different from their own but are every bit as worthwhile and legitimate.
It takes ALL the pieces to make a jigsaw puzzle complete. Seems a lot of folks would prefer to throw out all the gay pieces or the black pieces or the Jewish pieces… or… (goes on forever) . I can assure you that if all the contributions to society made by gay and lesbian people throughout recorded history were suddenly removed you’d find one whopping big hole in your enjoyment of life.
Educate yourself, Bob. You’ll find the exercise most beneficial. (Easy place to start is search for “homosexual” in Wikipedia and go from there. Better yet, get to know a few.)
John S. Riverview
March 19, 2011
The bible describes homosexuals as sinners. Jesus loves all sinners. All of us are sinners. Jesus loves us all.
The bible says salvation is accomplished be putting our sins behind us and changing our ways forever(repenting). Whoever among you is not a sinner let him cast the first stone.
rae2
March 20, 2011
May I suggest folks read Professor Bart D. Erhman’s latest book
“Forged-Writing in the Name of God: Why the Bible’s authors are not who we think they are.”
http://www.bartdehrman.com/books/forged.htm
“In Forged, Ehrman’s fresh and original research takes readers back to the ancient world, where forgeries were used as weapons by unknown authors to fend off attacks to their faith and establish their church. So, if many of the books in the Bible were not in fact written by Jesus’s inner circle—but by writers living decades later, with differing agendas in rival communities—what does that do to the authority of Scripture?”
This is an eye-opening book, well researched by an acknowledged and respected scholar whose PhD includes the ability to actually read the ancient texts that are available. For those whose minds are not yet completely closed it is an enlightening and educational text. There’s even one book in the Bible supposedly authored by an apostle who has been PROVEN TO BE ILLITERATE – could neither read nor write! That’s some trick!
BTW, the word “homosexual” NEVER appears in a legitimate Bible. The word wasn’t even invented until the mid-1800s. The entire concept we have today of homosexuality WAS NOT EVEN KNOWN by those living 2,000 years ago. To lift an ancient phrase or two from here and there, in books often forged and doctored by anonymous authors, and apply them to today’s culture is beyond ridiculous. It’s absurd.
Another example: the word “alma” in ancient texts means “young woman” but somehow, during one of the many translations to Greek, that term became young VIRGIN – and so was born the MYTH of Virgin Mary. Look what the Catholics made that one into! Makes a great story, but like any other fairy tale, it just isn’t true. Joseph and Mary had been travelling together for a long time before Jesus came along. Anyone who buys that this couple never had sex in all that time will believe anything.
The Bible contains a multitude of stories, fables, a jumble of fact+fiction, and outright LIES constructed by ANONYMOUS “authors” to support their own biases and prejudices… much as are being published today. That’s why it’s essential that before you swallow what is on the printed page you need know a lot about the author and to learn how to read critically and understand how a bibliography and other references authenticate claims made by authors. (This caution, BTW, includes ME. Don’t take my word for anything. Check it out for yourself. Go learn a few ancient languages so you can read what was ACTUALLY written instead of just repeating what someone else tells you.)
There is NO authentication offered about anything written in the Bible. You have to be pretty gullible to believe, for example, that what Jesus is QUOTED as saying… you know those bits between the quotation marks ” ….. ” that are offered to us by authors who never met Jesus and who were writing decades and even centuries after Jesus’s death, is an accurate reporting of what was said? Authors today can’t get stuff correct when they actually record and transcribe what someone says. You think ancient scribes could do better? Preposterous.
My point here is that those who uncritically just believe and accept as “truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth” what is written in the Bible without giving a thought to the possibility that the material is perhaps, at the very least, suspect, are making a fundamental error of gargantuan proportions.
But isn’t it wonderful that we have the freedom to make complete fools of ourselves?
brenda C
March 19, 2011
IN time the TRUTH of these opposing views, laws of the land etc will be very clear which way is the Right way…very soon I believe.
You may not know Kim, but she is the most loving caring attentive person you would ever want to know. This incident does NOT show who she is. Even if she did the wrong thing according to the Law of the Land, which I pray for her for strength and wisdom to hear and see what God will have her do and or say in the days ahead. She did make a decision according to her concscience. Knowing what she knows now perhaps she would have handled it differently..or maybe not.
She does not hate gays at all..not at all. It sure would seem that way …but I can assure you that is NOT the case at all. The bible says we are to do good to those who do not agree with us or persecute us but sometimes we are to take a stand for our beliefs and that is the bottom line. People will be upset and hurt of one’s conviction..well actually both sides do. At the end of the day…what would Jesus do? Kim did what she felt in her conscience and her understanding of scriptures to refuse service. I agree the law of the land says she can’t . If she is correct in her belief and understanding how to deal with it, then the law of the land has to come second. Perhaps she may decide because of that to not be in business in the public ..or keep going.
I remain in prayer for KIM in this situation and for ALL concerned.
Maranatha
Mandie
March 21, 2011
Why has nobody addressed the multiple posts in regard to the rest of Leviticus? Too tough of a question? Seriously! Kim could be very sweet and nice.. sure… but if she is going to PRACTISE ONE OF THE LAWS WHY NOT FOLLOW THE REST! I sure hope she never never works on Sundays. That is punishable by death according to God’s law! And I hope she never sells flowers or even talks to men that get there hair trimmed! And God FORBID she sells flowers to anyone that approaches a godly alter with glasses! I am so sick and tired of idiots that lean on religious ideas to back their own prejiduces. Get over yourself. Everyone is a sinner aren’t they?? WELL AREN’T THEY?? Who the hell are you to judge. It’s people like this that made me turn from christianity and become a an Atheist. I refuse to be catergorized with the intolerant
Bob
March 19, 2011
Hey there two Bobs here. Maybe we are twins.
Troy R
March 21, 2011
I love the irony of this media event. Until now most people never heard of this flower shop. Also, most people (except gays) agree with what she did. Business will be booming for p&p…she’s got my loyalty as a customer, for life.
Consider This
March 21, 2011
So, to clarify, The owner of The (Florist) “Business”, which is NOT listed in the Greater Moncton phone book, nor is it listed on ‘Canada411.ca, nor does even calling “411” get you the business name in all of New Brunswick, gets literallly Criminally Harrassed at her RESIDENCE, and this is ‘OK’? http://justice.gc.ca/eng/pi/fv-vf/pub/har/part3a.html#prohib
This seems to have been lost as well.
Oh, right, her Religious Freedoms, ALSO protected under the New Brunswick Charter of Rights, also gets ignored and is the subject of Militant Anti-Christian (Religious persecution), and this is also ‘OK”?
After seeing the brief video clip, badly done, of the so-called “Peaceful Protest” one can hear clearly, intended threats against her and her property in the background.
Further, to step foot or place upon her property anything without express permission, is called “Criminal Trespassing”…Is THIS also ‘OK’?
This woman was specifically targetted by the Gay Community…And is she the only place in Greater moncton that sells flowers to the public?
The Greater Moncton Telephone Book’s Yellow Pages shows there to be 19 seperate Florist’s Business’s.
One would think, if one were shopping legitimately for Wedding Flowers, that they would automatically go to a local phone book first?
Basically the clear message from the Homosexual ‘Community’ is; “We have the right to be and do as we wish at anytime, and speak up about it in whatever manner we choose; Christians on the other hand, need to remain silent, or better yet, just go away.”
THIS my friends, is RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION….
Gee, Kind of like Hitler did in World War 2?
rae2
March 21, 2011
“Consider this” wrote, in part:
“Basically the clear message from the Homosexual ‘Community’ is; “We have the right to be and do as we wish at anytime, and speak up about it in whatever manner we choose; Christians on the other hand, need to remain silent, or better yet, just go away.”
Interesting, isn’t it, that all you have to do to the above paragraph is replace the word “Homosexual” with “Heterosexual”, and replace “Christians” with “Gays” and you have EXACTLY the message that the GLBT people have had to endure for decades. Not so comfy, is it you born-again types, when the shoe is on the other foot?
“Consider this” continued: “THIS my friends, is RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION…”.
I don’t agree. No one is suggesting Kim be sanctioned for being a “born-again” follower of Jesus Christ (as silly an addiction as that may seem to many).
She is being “persecuted” for being a LAW BREAKER. Amazing that “Consider this” and others of similar bias just skip over the fact that the “Kims” of Canada – business people open to the public whether or not they’re listed in the Yellow Pages (talk about a silly argument) – are committing an illegal act by refusing service on the basis of “race, creed, colour, sex, sexual orientation, etc., etc.” Laws in Canada are NOT subject to being overridden by religious dogma.
And, of course, nothing tags this diatribe contribution of “Consider this” (writing anonymously of course) as a counter-attack grasping at straws, as dragging the name Hitler into it. When intelligent argument fails haul out the hot-button big guns, as irrelevant as they might be to the issue at hand. Makes you sound smart and wise, right?
Consider This
March 21, 2011
In Reply to “rae2” (ALSO Very Anonymous I might add);
“She is being “persecuted” for being a LAW BREAKER.”
Ohhh, I understand, YOU are condoning Vigilante Justice…”Got it”…
What’s next “rae2”, Are you going to harrass and picket Christian Churches next?
Or Perhaps hunt down ALL Christians and Harrass them at all of their residences also??
And my invoking of Hitler’s name, was to point out the ridiculousness of a PREVIOUS Posting, by a PRO-gay individual, who compared Christians the Nazi’s; Perhaps in your eager haste to bash yet another Christian, you obviously negelcted to read “ALL” of the postings on this topic of discussion.
So, gee, I am guess I AM smarter and wiser than you…
Ken
March 22, 2011
the couple used a wedding planner, they contacted her, she runs her buisness out of her home, they protested her business address where she carries it out, The Gay Community did not set out to target her. They were legally protesting at a place of business which violated someones rights, Why do christians seem to believe that everyone has to follow their religion and if someone disagrees its religious persecution. This is no more than someone using religion as a smokescreen to violate someones human rights.
rae2
March 21, 2011
No, “Consider This,” I wouldn’t presume I have the right to “bash yet another Christian.” Christians are experts at bashing and discriminating against not only other so-called Christians but anyone else who doesn’t join them in their fantasy life.
And no, I don’t believe I will be picketing churches or Christian residences anytime soon either. There’s no point to doing that since in this country everyone should be free from personal threats to their safety and should have the right to hold pretty much any beliefs they feel the need for.
That said, their BELIEFS are wide open for comment, refute, and even derision. But most often this exercise is a waste of everyone’s time. Sadly, once a human mind has been properly conditioned and is now fully under the control of any religious agenda, it is rare that it will be able to free itself to ponder such gentle thoughts as…
“It ain’t so much the things you don’t know that get you in trouble.
It’s the things you know that just ain’t so.”
‑ Artemis Ward, 1834‑1867
As has been amply demonstrated in these postings, there is so much that people believe that … JUST AIN’T SO.
Finally… and I mean FINALLY, since I have already offered my views for consideration in earlier postings and since we’re dangerously close to being completely off topic, I bid you adieu. I have better things to do than endlessly argue philosophies with someone who is clearly smarter and wiser than I am.
Consider This
March 22, 2011
In Reply to “rae2”:
So, Once again, to quote YOUR very words;
“That said, their BELIEFS are wide open for comment, refute, and even derision. But most often this exercise is a waste of everyone’s time. Sadly, once a human mind has been properly conditioned and is now fully under the control of any religious agenda, it is rare that it will be able to free itself to ponder such gentle thoughts as…”
Once again, statements like this, ARE in fact, “Religious Persecution”.
(Canadian Federal and Provincial Laws and Charters of Rights say so, not just me or the Millions of Christians and other Religious Groups in Canada)
Dan
March 22, 2011
In the end–you are either saved or lost–what do you choose? God cares that you don’t believe his word–but only the prayers of his people may draw you to Him.
Dan
March 22, 2011
In the end–you are either saved or lost–what do you choose? God cares that you don’t believe his word–but only the prayers of his people may draw you to Him. You need to fix your website–I only typed this ONCE!! Also–not everyone around here has a http website!
Brian
March 22, 2011
We have a lot of people here quoting the bible and saying it is superior, How can you take the bible seriously. On 1 page it says Thou shall not kill, on another page it says kill homosexuals. Yes The owner of the flower shop is entitled to her beliefs however who or what gives her the right to impose them on her customers. She broke the laws of Canada and New Brunswick. Why is it that all religions seem to believe that they have the right to force on everybody. When are people going to learn everybody is different but they all should be treated equally. In 2000 yrs. our societies have changed yet some people still think that we should follow and live by words written by man 2000 years ago.
Ken
March 22, 2011
hi here’s my 2 cents worth I am not homosexual but i am against discrimination. Why can’t the supporters of Kim realize 1 thing yes she has a right to her religious beliefs but she doesn’t have the right to force them on everyone her customers. To the people quoting God said this, explain this to me . why is it that on 1 page the bible says Thou shall not kill , yet on another page its says to execute homosexuals by stoning them to death. Can you not realize this that the bible was written by man over 2000 yrs ago Our societies have changed our laws have changed. If there is 1 person out there than can prove to me that God said anything, let them prove it.
Tom
March 22, 2011
Can you imagine any company refusing business of any type these days? Forget the politics and morality, it’s just a stupid business decision. She must have received her training at the professional school of “Whack-a-doodle”…
Imagine if she were to go to her favorite restaurant, or bank, or maybe even the wholesaler that sells her flowers to her, and be refused service because she was straight… It’s not against the law here in Virginia, but rest assured (unless the server owned the establishment) the employee would surely be fired…
No company out there to make money is stupid enough to turn away a paying customer…
Or is there one?
Ken
March 22, 2011
this might be considered hitting below the belt but if Kim’s beliefs are against homosexuality how can she be in a religion where some of its reps are/had been engaged in homosexual acts with children
Jerry
March 22, 2011
This is not surprising at all that so many are turning away from God’s words and loving this world, it is exactly as how Jesus predicted things would be, for those who do not think we are nearing end times, look again, world wide disasters happening one after another, many other things will have to happen before the end of this society happens, but these things going on now are the beginning of the signs. As for the lady who has the questions about the bible, well I will answer one for you, mankind used to have to sacrifice animals for their sins that would cause an odor pleasing to God, however once Jesus did for our sins, we no longer have to do those things, but merely follow the examples Jesus set before us and pray for forgiveness to God through Jesus. The greatest thing that pleases God is for a sinner to turn from their sins and repent, we all have sinned in some form or another and some of us have repented, question is will the homesexuals do the same? If they do I can tell you God will remember you on the day of your judgement.
I do not condone any sort of violence or hatred towards anyone, as I am sure the owner of this flower shop in question does not, but at the same time it is up to each of us to make the decision who we associate or do business with. Bravo Kim, remember you will be persecuted in this world for doing God’s will, but your reward is coming in the next world.
Jerry
Mandie
March 22, 2011
“Judge not, that ye be not judged (Matthew 7:1).”
If she cannot sell to homosexuals than she should not sell to theives, lepers, prostitutes, the divorced, adulterers, murderers, …. point I’m making is that everyone is a sinner in one form or the other. No one is free from sin as we born into it no? So it would be best if she shut her doors all together so she is free from offending god. And teaching the world that being a christian means turning people away is exactly what jesus would want? Did he not spend time with prostitutes, lepers and thieves and love them anyways? And it has been proven that people are born gay. This cannot be helped. So blame their maker.
And the new testiment also says this
Corinthians 14:34-35
“Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.”
how sad
willie
March 23, 2011
Moncton Gray Pride Parade:
Who is ever going to organise Moncton’s first Gray Pride parade in honour of all our local seniors? Imagine seniors from all walkers of life getting together and celebrating their right to be old. None were actually born that way but for many it was not a choice in life, either. It just happened over the span of a few decades. Whether it be held on Main Street or in Victoria Park I’m sure a great time would be had by one and all. Whether gay, straight, or just bent out of shape seniors seam to have developed the knack of getting along with each other. Maybe we all could learn something from them while we’re still young.
Ken
March 23, 2011
this is in response to Gary, yes the couple may have chose their lifestyle, but the shop keeper chose her religion. What gives her the right to impose her religious lifestyle on her customers. Where is this couples right to not participate in that. She denied a service in contravention of the New Brunswick human rights act. She can practice any religion she wants, she just can’t impose them on her customers
Gary
March 23, 2011
We have the freedom of choice, well at least that is what they say in this country. The couple who decided to go in the lifestle they chose had that freedom to do so. However, let’s not reduce the rights of others to decide they would prefer not to be involved in that lifestyle! It’s a shame that the minorities need you to make their decisions right. Go elsewhere and look for what you want and do not force someone to accept your way of living!
Ken
March 24, 2011
The progressive and enlightened members of our society have fought for and won these battles
the ability of children to play on Sunday
Woman’s Rights
Being able to go to a sporting event,movie,or a play on Sunday
Pre Marital Sex
Mixed Race or Religion Marriages
Men and Woman living together and having sex
the pill birth control
Sunday shopping
these are all sins according to the bible yet christians have all adapted these into their lives
so what is the problem with allowing 1 more
TY
March 29, 2011
Kim’s decision was impugned; the mob at her door was unlicensed, in violation of city ordinances… and the cops didn’t bother to check on that! I’m willing to bet the mail she’s been getting is no more civil than the crowd, or some of the posters here.
How best to defend our victim, who suffers because she stood for her conscience?
Order flowers from her. Frequent Petals & Promises. Become a repeat customer. And that’s how we overwhelm the gay urge to punish.
QTC
March 30, 2011
“Gay urge to punish”? Did you not notice how I permitted every single critique and attack on gay people to be published in this queer journal? If I had acted like Kim, I would have said “these comments are against my conscience and my beliefs; therefore, I am not going to publish them.” But I didn’t do that. Do you know why? Because that would be discrimination and that’s ILLEGAL. I respect the right to free speech, even for people who hate my guts and want to use that freedom to attack my community and everything I believe in. So go ahead, comment all you want. I will not silence or discriminate against you.
rae2
March 30, 2011
To QTC…
This has been an excellent (and mostly civil) exercise in free speech and I, for one, thank you for providing the forum.
The polarized views posted amply demonstrate one of the great mysteries and great vulnerabilities of the human mind – how easily it can be manipulated by slick psychological hocus-pocus. These techniques disable that part of the brain that enables it to examine and challenge “beliefs” to determine if there is even a grain of truth in them, or even if they make any sense at all! Any brain that does begin to wonder or question is immediately beset by an uncomfortable dissonance from which it finds relief by shutting down the questioning and returning to blind acceptance which it then will defend to the death.
If there is anything on this planet more expert than many organized religions in convincing people to believe “absurdities” I’d like to know what that is. They’ve been practising and perfecting their brainwashing techniques for over 2,000 years. There’s not much difference between the fictitious nonsense disseminated by the L. Ron Hubbards of this world (Scientology), the various orthodox catholic churches, and most of the shards of the fractured Protestant religions, the Muslims, the Jews, and so on. Granted, some are more prone to violence than others, but all have the potential to do great damage.
When any human mind is in a vulnerable state it is in great danger of being gobbled up into the darkness as fast as dust is sucked into a ShopVac. Once these mind controls have you “in the bag” few ever escape into freedom and the light again. At least the customers of Barnam & Bailey, once they’d been suckered into paying to see an exhibit, got to go home again to forget how they got conned. Not so with organized religions. They’re so good at it they convince their victims to continually reinforce their own mind controls, aka “beliefs.”
“Those who can make you believe absurdities
can make you commit atrocities.” Voltaire
Witness the role of religions in the murder and mayhem taking place as you read these words. Only religious brainwashing (and perhaps other forms of mental illness) can convince someone to strap explosives to their body and go blow up other innocent human beings. That’s much more efficient than just burning people at the stake, don’t you think?
Thanks again, QTC.
Willie
March 30, 2011
I’ve posted here a few times in the last week or so. I didn’t know it was a gay based site. I thought it was some CBC news forum. I guess I always was a bit slow. I’d like to take my hat off to the person running this message board. You have tolerated hotheads from both sides of the issue and have put up with us all in a very diplomatic manner. Again, my hat goes off in a salute.
QTC
March 30, 2011
thanks, Willie. I appreciate your perspective.
willie
March 31, 2011
I try to call things like I see them. Lately the world has so many unhappy people in it that it needs to lighten up a bit. People need to stop jumping on other because of their differences but should compliment each other for what they have in common. It’s easier to build bridges than walls. Not bad coming from a homophobiac, eh? Have a good day.
florist fredericton
February 14, 2012
After learning that the floral services were requested for a same-sex wedding, Kim Evans, one of the owners of Petals and Promises, refused to provide floral services for the event. According to the CBC, Evans said in an email, ”I am choosing to decline your business.